When Is It Okay to Leave a Church?

When is it okay to leave one fellowship of believers to go an join another one? Might be good to step back and ask a more fundemental question. Is it okay? It is right? Is it what God intended when he created the church?

When I was the youth minister at the University Church of Christ in Abilene, Texas, people changed church membership as often as they changed their underwear. Or so it seemed. Someone hired a new preacher - off they would go to hear the new voice. A new youth minister? Oh, boy! My kids really like him - "he's awesome!" they would say. A new building? Wow! See ya later. That gym is something else.

We're leaving, but don't take it personal, say they. No hard feelings, we hope.

What I liked about the church here in Salt Lake was the fact that there wasn't a whole lot of Christian churches around. You had to work through your differences. You had to plow through the dry patches.

And now, 15 years later, there have been many church plants to sprout up. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for church planting. We do need more churches! The down side is this - it is now very easy to leave your current church for the newer "more exciting" model across town.

Church shopping has crept into the vocabulary of the church in Salt Lake. Maybe we're just catching up from all those years when we had few choices of where to fellowship. We've become spiritual consumers. What do you offer? Here's what we're looking for - do you have that?


So today, I raise a question: When is it okay to leave a church? IS it okay to leave a church?

I have some thoughts on the subject. I would love to hear yours.

This and That

With the Packers out (can't believe it!) I'll have to root for the Giants. Or, do you pull for New England to pull off the undeafeated season?

Loved the season finale of The Amazing Race. My favorite team, TK and Racheal won the million! Now, we turn our attention to Amercian Idol, LOST, watching "24" Season 6 on DVD.

I'm reading several good books right now. "What On Earth Have I Done" by Robert Fulghum is a good book to read a chapter before going to bed. Also, "Solving the PowerPoint Predicament" is a very informative book that explains the ins and outs of Powerpoint.

Had 9 inches of snow in West Jordan this morning. Spent most of the day shoveling the white stuff here at the house and at the church's building.

A busy weekend

Took the fam to see "The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything" (the new Veggie Tales movie). The kids loved it! As always with any Veggie Tales movie, it had a great moral.

My daugther's high school band had the honor of playing with the Dallas Brass in a concert on the campus of Univeristy of Utah Friday night. It was an amazing concert! A guy did the most incredible Tuba solo that I've ever heard. Yeah, the Tuba! If you can make the Tuba cool, you've pulled off a miracle.

The Amazing Race is almost over! Can't wait till the finale next week. We're pulling for TK and Rachel.

During the holidays my daugthers had me watch all three seasons of "The Office". I just started season six of "24". So good so far. Question: during the writers strike are there any other shows I can watch on DVD? I've heard that Jericho, and Journeyman are good shows. Any other recommends?

I'm looking forward to see some new "LOST" eposides. The question is - how many will we seet? Just wish that "24" would make it for a new season. Doesn't look good.

Started a two part series today "Confessions of a Minister". Got the idea from the book by Greg Groeschel "Confessions of a Pastor". It was an overwhelming response. It's amazing what happens when we really talk about the things that matter.

My Cowboys are out of the playoffs. The Colts are gone. Guess I'll become a Packers fan. Who are root against Brett Farve?

Left Out Some Great Books!

To Elise: You can hijack this blog any time!! I can't believe that I left out the Home to Harmony series of books by Philip Gurley. Love every book! Great story telling. A lot like the Mitford series, which I love, too! Must be gettin' old. "The Postcard" is a wonderful book as well. (I like book about Amish people and their culture.)

My wife's favorite is "The Blue Bottle Club". She doesn't do a lot of reading, but she loves that one! Everyone she has recommended it to has brought back a favorable response.

I've been listening to the book of Ezekiel from the "Bible Experience". Pretty cool. The Bible Experience was recorded by African American actors, which bothers me a little bit -but I've really enjoyed what little I've heard so far. I put it on my iPod which makes the Bible easier to listen to while I work or walk. You can get each book by itslef off iTunes without buying the whole Bible. Each book is $3.95. Check it out!

Hope your new year is off to a good start.

Christian Fiction

I love to read. In the last few years there have been some really good fictional books written that have a Christian bent to them. Like any other genre, some are good; some are bad!

As I promised on December 11 (my last post!?) Here is a list of some of my favorite Christian Fiction books:

This Present Darkness by Frank Peretti
Piercing The Darkness by F. Peretti
The Last Sin Eater by Francine Rivers
Redeeming Love by F. Rivers
And The Shofar Blew by Rivers
You Are Special by Max Lucado
Hinds Feet on High Places by Hannah Hunnard
Love Comes Softly Series (Rivers)

Have heard that Karen Kingsbury is a good writer. Anyone have a book of hers to recommend?

I love a good political thriller - like Grisham, Baldacci. Question: is there a "Christian" writer that writes a compelling thriller?

I didn't care for the Left Behind Series. I read the first five then lost interest.

Seems that most Christian fiction is meant for women. Why is that?

What is your favorite Christian fiction book?

Must Read Books

Before I give my list of must read books, I must give a movie recommendation. Go see "August Rush"! One of the best movies I've seen in years. You'll be cheering at the end! You want to applaud when the credits roll. How long has it been since you wanted to do that? Take a date to see this great movie.

MUST READ BOOKS. Okay, I know that I will forget one or two - but here it goes. Here is my must read Christian book list. These are not for preachers, but for everyone to read!


ABC’s of Christianity Rubel Shelly
I Just Want to be a Christian by Rubel Shelly
Experiencing God
Your God is Too Safe by Mark Buchanan
Simply Christian by N.T. Wright
It’s Not About Me by Max Lucado - any book by Lucado!
My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers
Knowing God by J.I. Packer
Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller
More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell
The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning
Messy Spirituality by Mike Yaconelli
The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

Any you would like to add to the list?

Next: My favorite Christian fiction books!

List of must reads list?

A man has been attending Southside for about a year. He was raised LDS but has now embraced Christianity. He asked me last night for Christian books he should read. Good question!

While I'm compiling my list, I would love for you to weigh in on what books would be on your must read list.

Give me your top 10 (or 15 - how many you want!).

50 new people in 2 months!

Go to livechurchtv.org and check out Greg Groeschel's blog on "40 Things I Wish Pastor's Would Have Told Me When I Was 20". Classic! He's up to number 20. If you are a pastor (minister), this list will resonate with you!

Trying to get my One Year Bible reading up to speed. I got really behind during our construction on the new building. Don't know if I'll make it up; but I'm going to give it the ole college try.

We've been in the new building for about 2 months. So far, we've gained about 50 new people! We've got our guest services going full throtle; our follow up is going great; getting our 101 back on track. I've been preaching on "Simple Church" and the reaction has been incredible!

Now, we are trying to get most, if not all, invovled in a small group. We have an ice cream social with our newcomers planned for this Sunday. They will meet all the elders and the ministry team leaders. We follow up with a 101 seminar in the new year.

Who will the Hogs hire to replace Huston Nutt? I'm hearing Tommy Bowden from Clemson. Boy, I would not be excited about that hire. Give the job to Chris Peterson from Boise, or Gus Mulzhan - and see what happens! Take a chance!

Confessions Of A Pastor

Reading "Confessions of a Pastor" by Greg Groescheil. Wow! What a powerful book. Greg is a pastor (i.e., "minister") of a cutting edge church in Edmond, Oklahoma. He has written a book that EVERY minister you know can relate to. He has written what many of have been thinking but were afraid to share it. Well, Greg does! He writes in an honest, confessing tone.

Some of the chapter titles: "I have to work hard at being sexually pure," "I can't stand a lot of christians," "I worry most of the time," "I feel completely inadequate" "I'm afraid of failure"
"I stink at handling criticism" "Most of the time I feel incredibly lonely" and more!

Have you ever read a book and thought, man, this writer has been reading my mind - this book is one of those books! This book should be required reading for ministers.

If you have a minister on your Christmas list (and who doesn't?), please buy them this insightful book.

Thanksgiving thoughts

Many times I dwell on the things that I wished I could do but can't: Ride my bike with no hands; sing, play the banjo like Earl Scruggs, -- but this day makes me stop and give thanks for what I do have. I have a lot to be thankful for.



Hope you have enjoyed a great Thanksgiving holiday. We joined the Osborn's (we have 13 of the last 14 years) in hosting several families who do not have family close by. This year we had about 23 people. We've had as many as 48 in years past! It's one of our annual traditions.



Had our annual "Pie Night" at Southside. We had close to 300 come and enjoy the 95 pies! Our praise team did a great job of singing; many, many guests came! Now, that's "a win"!



Had a great time watching the LSU vs. Arkansas with several good friends of mine. Wow! What a game! Couldn't believe the Hogs pulled it out! Maybe McFadden also won a Heisman as well! Hope so.



Took by seven year old daughter to see Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium today. Good movie. At least we both enjoyed it.



Looking forward to seeing "Enchanted" and "August Rush". I like it when Hollywood makes movies I can see with my children.

Who Can Be a Prophet? What is the goal of preaching?

Who can be a prophet -- who is qualified "preach the word"? Read this challenging words from William Willimon:

The purpose of my preaching, the test of a "good" sermon, is its ability to be enlisted by God as part of God's prophet-making process. God intends to have a people who speak the truth, who testify to the world of God's great, loving assult upon the world. As Moses put it, "Would that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit on them!"

In Acts 2, the pentecostal test for prophecy is not how outrageous we preachers have managed to be in the pulpit but rather how many people we have produced who are able to say, NO: people who speak the truth to power, people who can go up and stand before the Pharaoh and impudently tell him that he is not fully charged in the world - old men and women, janitors and maids with visions and dreams who don't mind telling the world about them.

From my reading of Acts 2 and Luke's account of the birth of the church, I derive a few principles for prophecy: (1) The Spirit has given the world a prophetic community, not simply a few outspoken social critics; (2) the goal of the Spirit's descent is the creation of a polis, a people who look, speak, and act differently from the world's notions of community; and (3) No individual prophets are possible without the existence of a peculiar prophetic community whose life together is vibrant enough to produce a band of prophets who do not mind telling the truth to one another and to the world, no matter what.

The goal of our pastoral care, preaching, visitation, prayer and praise is the production of a whole gaggle of prophets who will let God use them to get back what God owns.

Wow! I love that! Does that encourage you today? Yes! It is more than just creating "good" sermons -- finding that story that everyone will love. It is much deeper than that! Is your ministry producing prophets who live out the gospel during the week?

That's the question we should be wrestling with!

Open House/Dedication Sunday

We had our community open house last Saturday. We invited the community in to see our new building. The West Jordan Chamber of Commerce had a ribbon cutting to open things. We had 500 people to come and visit! A number of them expressed that they hadn't been active in a fellowship in a long time and felt the need to do so. Many came on Sunday!

On Sunday we had our day to dedicate our new facility to the Lord's use. We had 365 in worship! About 200 stayed for the potluck. We had over 14 first time guests! (Most were from our open house). Many of them stayed for the potluck.

Wow! What a day! I especially liked what one guest wrote in our guest book, "You are some super friendly people!" It's one thing to say that you have a friendly church; quite another to have a first time guest say it!

Now, I embark on a four part series "Simple Church". I will attempt to bring us back to imitating Jesus two commandments! I'm praying that we, along with our guests, will get a fresh glimpse of Jesus' radical vision of what his church is to be.

Really enjoying reading "UnChristian". Good stuff!

McFadden back in Hesiman?

It was good to see Darren McFadden & Felix Jones run for a combined almost 500 yards of rushing Saturday night for my Hogs. Hopefully, McFadden will get back in the Heisman running.

This coming weekend is our grand opening weekend. We have a ribbon cutting open house on Saturday; a dedication/homecoming on Sunday - complete with a potluck! Should be a busy week getting all that planned and implemented.

Finally, I get time to read Harry Potter 7! Also, I will start reading the book "UnChristian: What the next generation is saying about Christianity". Looking forward to it. Next on my list is "Confessions of a Pastor".

A Divine Conversation

A quote from "Proclamation and Theology" by William Willimon concerning the dialogue we have with God:

"John says that the risen Christ stood among them and said, "Peace." He spoke to them.

Why would the risen Christ appear first to these fearful ordinary men and women, his disciples, who had demonstrated so conclusively their failure to follow him and be his courageous disciples? Why would the risen Christ not appear to some powerful, influential, public figure like Pilate or Augustus?

He came to the ones who had fled the conversation once the going got tough. He came to the very ones who had so disappointed and forsaken him, those whom he had so patiently taught and yet who had so patently misunderstood his every word. He came to them and said, in effect, "Let's talk. As I was saying . . ."

And thus the church was born, and thus we were all made witnesses or resurrection and preachers of the good news.

And the conversation was resumed. Time and again in our history with the God of the church and Israel, when we have betrayed the love of God with our infidelity, when we have misunderstood, when we have fled into the darkness or stopped up our ears and hardened our hearts, this God has returned to us and has resumed the conversation.

In that divine-human dialogue, in that conversation, this God has proved to be remarkably resourceful and imaginative, full of stratagems and devices - the Incarnation, Word Made Flesh, beging the most imaginative of all. There is a relentlessness about the speech of God, an effusive loquaciounsess, a dogged determination not to rest, not to fall silent, not to cease striving until every single one of us is part of the conversation.

Therein is our hope. Here is a a divine-human dialogue that is initiated and , at every turn in the road sustained, by a living, resourceful, long-winded God, thank God."

Isn't that good news?

Funny video

Here is the link to a very funny video from youtube. The woman is a Christian comedian. I think you'll enjoy it. All moms and dads will get a kick out this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGoelj7l668&mode=related&search=--

Who will win the World Series? My heart says the Rockies; but my head says the Red Sox. Should be a entertaining world series.

We're planning our open house weekend on Nov.10,11 to celebrate our new building. We'll have an open house/ribbon cutting on Saturday followed by a dedication service on Sunday. Should be a great opportunity to invite the community.

This weekend we install our dual projectors for the worship center. We will also get our banners and other stuff up on the walls. When we're done I'll post some pictures.

A different kind of parent meeting!

Just watched the DVD of Landon Saunders' keynote at ACU Lectures in September "Night Without Vision" from Micah 3. Landon has not lost his fire, that's for sure! Get on the ACU website and order it! You'll be challenged and encouraged. (Be a great thing to show to your small group and discuss).



Our associate minister called the teen parents together yesterday. It wasn't a "planning meeting" but a "praying meeting". We as parents shared the struggles of our teens. He handed us each three teens for us to be praying for. We then prayed for 45 minutes for our teens! Spent about five minutes planning activities. Now, that's my kind of parent meeting! He plans on having these on a monthly basis. Love it!



Looking forward to attending the Zoe Conference in Fresno in January. Our worship planning team is going with me. Really looking forward to that.

Candlelight on Christmas Eve or not?

I've picked my sermon series for this fall - a four or five part on the church I'm calling "The Church: God's Simple Ideas" - then, after Thanksgiving I'm planning a four part series on the temptations entitled "Pause".

This year we're thinking of doing our candlelight service, which we normally have on Christmas Eve, on the Sunday morning at our regular assembly time. We hope that many of our spiritually single families can bring their spouses to this special service. The candlelight is a lot work. We can't think of a single person who has been reached through the candlelight service on Christmas Eve.

It's one of those tough questions - do you just do it because a lot of people enjoy it? The church should be about making disicples. If this event isn't doing that, isn't the question already answered? Or it is that simple?

We're about 80% moved into the new building. The new grass is beginning to grow. The landscaping is taking shape. Looking forward to getting all this behind us.

Trip To Arkansas

Just returned from a trip to Arkansas for the Auburn game. One of the worst games I have ever watched. I had a feeling we would loose the game, but I went to see Darren McFadden make some of his famous runs. He only had 30 yards rushing. Unbelievable! I did enjoy seeing my daughter, my two brothers, my first game at Fayetteville and spending four days with my good friend Scott Warren. And, oh, the catfish at the Catfish Hole was incredible.

The Hogs could go 0-7 in the SEC this year. McFadden has lost all hope of winning the Hiesman. No SEC title. No bowl game. These are truly dark days in Hogville. However, the roundball Razorbacks are picked to win the west and go to the sweet 16 by one preseason basketball magazine. I hope so.

Go Rockies!

This n' That

Saw a really good movie on DVD called "Believe In Me". It's based on the true story of a girls high school basketball coach in Oklahoma around 1964. A female version of "Hoosiers". The whole family will enjoy this one.

Caught Todd Agnew in concert a few days ago. Wow, can that boy preach! His music isn't bad either. If you get a chance, go see him concert, if nothing else for the good preaching!

Just ordered a copy of Landon Saunders' keynote at the ACU lectures. Can't wait to hear it. Anyone remember Landon's seven part series on preaching he did back in the '70's? Know how one could secure a copy of them?

Fall in Utah is my favorite time of year. Thing is, we've gone fromsummer right into winter. Tonight's projected low is 34, with snow falling on the valley floor all day Saturday into Sunday. That's just wrong. Flat wrong.

In the new digs!

Had our first worship assembly in the new building this past Sunday! It was exciting. Had a great crowd, with a lot of first time guests! Felt a little funny not preaching two times!

We couldn't have classes. The Temporary Permit didn't allow for us to be in the educational wing. We received that permit yesterday. This Sunday will be our first time to have Sunday School in over a month.

This week we are busy moving in the church and the school. Next week should be a return to somewhat of a "normal" rountine around the building.

Looking forward to getting back to having time to read and reflect. Spend some evenings with the family.

Just finished season four of "24". Oh, it was very good. Season 3 is still my favorite. On to season 5 (or day 5 if you prefer). Watched the first one. My word! The first fifteen minutes changed the whole scope of "24". Which is what I like about the show - you never know who is going to survive!